67. Winter Goddesses (Themed Episode #14)

(musical intro)

Lizzie 

Hello, and welcome to Mytholadies, the podcast where we talk about women from mythology and folklore all over the world. We're your hosts.

Zoe 

I'm Zoe.

Lizzie 

And I'm Lizzie. And how are you today, Zoe?

Zoe 

I really almost said "I'm Lizzie," so that's about where I'm at right now (both laugh). But I'm good. I-um, having a good weekend. It's Halloweekend, so have a lot of fun plans.

Lizzie 

Oh, yeah, it is.

Zoe 

Yeah, I just met up with a bunch of people for my directing class to direct a scene, and that went really well, so I'm very excited about that.

Lizzie 

That's awesome.

Zoe 

Yeah. How are you?

Lizzie 

I'm fine. I'm not doing anything for Halloween. I am staying indoors.

Zoe 

That sounds good.

Lizzie 

With my girlfriend.

Zoe 

Ooh, Lizzie has a girlfriend. Sorry, everyone (Lizzie laughs). Sorry to break some hearts.

Lizzie 

I'm off the market.

Zoe 

I know all our fans are really sad, but it's okay. I'm still single. So, slide into those DMs. Anyways.

Lizzie 

Zoe is taking applications.

Zoe 

I am taking applications.

Lizzie 

So feel free to DM them.

Zoe 

Go for it. I'm-I'm down. Okay. I was gonna ask you a question, but now like--oh, yeah. Is Halloween big in the Netherlands? Or is it really just an American thing?

Lizzie 

No. No, they have it here. But it's not like--I mean, people, like, go to parties and stuff.

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

Lizzie 

But it's definitely not as big a thing, but it is a thing.

Zoe 

Mm hmm. Yeah. It seems like--

Lizzie 

Like, I've already seen Christmas decorations. So I'm guessing--I'm thinking that's a much bigger thing.

Zoe 

I mean, yeah.

Lizzie 

Then for Halloween. I actually went to Dutch TJ Maxx the other day.

Zoe 

Whoa!

Lizzie 

TK Maxx.

Zoe 

(laughing) TK Maxx.

Lizzie 

It was--it was like exactly the same, except it was in Dutch, which was awesome.

Zoe 

That is really funny.

Lizzie 

 It was just like being back in America. But in a--in a fun way.

Zoe 

Yeah, did it--did it get your homesickness, or did it help your homesickness or anything?

Lizzie 

Actually, yeah, it was great. And I-I found so many candles. It was awesome.

Zoe 

(laughs) That's great.

Lizzie 

So before we start the episode, we would just like to remind you all that we have a Ko-fi page where you can contribute to either a monthly or one time donation and then have access to our bonus episodes, or you can also subscribe to us on Spotify for about $5 a month, and then you will have access to our bonus episodes there.

Zoe 

Yeah!

Lizzie 

We currently have three bonus episodes, the most recent of which we talk about Strega Nona, the beloved children's book by Tomie dePaola. And that all being said, today's a themed episode. Zoe, what are we talking about?

Zoe 

So today, excitingly, we are talking about winter goddesses because it's getting cold and winter will soon be upon us. Daylight Savings Time ends next week. So--but anyway, now we're talking about winter goddesses, and as I sort of mentioned, um, like we talked about in our Old Crones episode last year, winter goddesses are actually typically depicted as old women. And that's because winter is considered the death of the year before the earth is reborn in spring. They're not always depicted as old woman though, but it's not uncommon. And in fact, a lot of the old woman we talked about in our old crones episode are associated with winter.

Lizzie 

Like Cailleach Beara.

Zoe 

Yes, I actually have her down, um, later in my notes. I mentioned her.

Lizzie 

Nice.

Zoe 

And so she's generally considered the crone archetype of the Mother-Maiden-Crone triple goddess. Um, the old woman represents death and dying and wisdom and darkness. Sidenote, though, I found out there's not actually that much evidence for the Mother-Maiden-Crone archetype being like a big thing, though, which is really interesting to me.

Lizzie 

Oh!!

Zoe 

Because it's so big, but like, maybe it doesn't actually exist that much. But anyway, there are a lot of like--

Lizzie 

Maybe it's because it's like, it's so neat. Like, it's like, ooh, such a really nice way of categorizing things.

Zoe 

Yeah. Mm hmm.

Lizzie 

I don't know. I didn't, I didn't realize it wasn't very prevalent.

Zoe 

Yeah, it was just like Robert Graves saying stuff. And he's kind of weird. So.

Lizzie 

He's like the Joseph Campbell of...that.

Zoe 

Yes, of--(laughs) that. It's one of those, like--because in the 1900s folklorists were just saying whatever, and then people actually looked into and they were like, this isn't actually as relevant as you said it was because you look--we looked at more than just a few, like, mythologies in the world. But anyway.

Lizzie 

Yeah. And particularly with Joseph Campbell, I feel like a lot of his work regarding myths was really discredited by actual folklorists, but like really widely accepted by like--

Zoe 

George Lucas?

Lizzie 

Hollywood. Yeah, exactly. And so it got really big because people were like, this is awesome. But that's--but it's not necessarily like, well-founded.

Zoe 

Yeah. But anyways, they are often depicted as old woman. As I said, in winter, things die. Makes sense. They're also often seen as threatening figures. Winter is a difficult time, and this was especially relevant in pre-industrial times, when your livelihood was dependent on agricultural cycles. And in the winter, you're not growing things, you have to rely on your stores and the harvest. And if you have a bad harvest or your store--something bad happens and you lose all your food or whatever, you're kind of screwed. And also, you probably don't have--

Lizzie 

Winter was a really scary time.

Zoe 

Yeah, you don't have great insulation, and you kind of have to really buckle down for a couple of months and hope that you can make it through. So yeah, winter goddesses were pretty scary. And so they're often beings that had to be banished or sacrificed to in order to protect oneself and one's family from their wrath. And their wrath generally involved, like, things like bad weather, frosts, things like that. Things that winter entails, you know, winter weather.

Zoe 

However, some winter goddesses actually will come in pairs, with one being kinder and the other being crueler. Um, a good example of that is with the Germanic figures of Holle, who brings the snow, which is like soft and gentle, and then Perchta, who we talked about in an episode last year. We've talked about both these figures before, actually, and--but Perchta brings the cruel frost and wicked punishment for evildoers. And they're sort of like, um, two sides of one coin, one being nice and the other being more mean. And other winter goddesses are actually directly associated with spring and summer deities, whether it's different incarnations of the same figure, or twins or rivals, or like again, we have the Mother-Maiden-Crone kind of incarnation thing where it's like the-the--she ages and grows old and dies and then is reborn, is the sort of, like, idea I think we see sometimes. And the example is Cailleach Beara and Brigid, who are associated with each other, I believe.

Lizzie 

Mm hmm.

Lizzie 

Yeah. Yeah, we talked about this in the crones episode.

Lizzie 

Yeah.

Zoe 

Yeah, with Brigid being a spring goddess, and Cailleach Beara being a winter goddess. And so according to the article "The Winter Goddess: Percht, Holda, and Related Figures" by Lotte Motz, winter goddesses often have the following traits. So the time of midwinter is seen as holy or important to them. It's the time when they're the most powerful and significant. Makes sense. They have some kind of power over nature, particularly winter weather, particularly snow, frost, etc. There are domestic and seasonal customs associated with these figures, influenced by their legends. So there are, like, rituals that you have to perform in order to appease them, um, certain holidays and stuff associated with them. They have the power to deal both punishment and reward. They're often associated with women's home chores, such as spinning is actually a really big association. They often have a dual aspect, either in personality or appearance, sometimes appearing as like, a young woman and pretty or old and scary. Which is an interesting dichotomy we've talked about before, but anyways.

Zoe 

Um, they often have associations with animals, and they rarely have male partners, or any form of like, implicated sexual relationships, which we will talk about today is not always the case, as I at least have a woman who does have a husband and is-is--that's a big part of her story, but isn't the case for a lot of winter goddess.

Lizzie 

Actually, same. All three of my women have husbands.

Zoe 

Okay, so maybe that one's not as accurate as we'd like to think. But--

Lizzie 

But also my women are all outside of like, sort of Christianized--

Zoe 

Yeah.

Lizzie 

You know, westernized culture.

Zoe 

Yeah, I mean, I feel like that also goes with like, the old woman thing is like, well, the old woman's not having sex, you know?

Lizzie 

Fair.

Zoe 

Yeah. And again, they're heavily associated with nature and also "wild areas," people--like, uncivilized, unchristianized areas of like, particularly Europe is the area that Lotte Motz is looking at, cuz she's looking at like Germanic figures. But like, yeah.

Lizzie 

That makes sense. Yeah, it wouldn't be necessarily universal.

Zoe 

Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of associations between winter gods and like, Christian holidays. Like, Christmas was originally like, that's--there was originally like, pre-Christian winter holidays celebrated around the time of Christmas. And the church was like, hey, what if we did that instead? And people would celebrate our holiday instead? And things like that.

Lizzie 

Yeah.

Zoe 

And yeah, as I just said, there were various, like, solstice celebrations, midwinter holidays, and those goddesses were often directly associated with those celebrations. So Lizzie, with all that being said, who is our First Lady of the day?

Lizzie 

Our First Lady is Skaði, who is from Norse mythology. She is associated with winter, skiing, bow-hunting, and mountains.

Zoe 

Nice.

Lizzie 

She's the daughter of Þjazi the giant, and she is called "the divinity of skis." She's heavily associated with skiing--

Zoe 

Nice.

Lizzie 

--and she's described going about on skis in the mountains and shooting prey with her bow and arrow. She is thought to be associated with the god Ullr, who is also described as a deity of skis, though there's less known about him.

Zoe 

Mmm.

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

Lizzie 

It has therefore have been suggested that Skaði and Ullr were a pair of deities associated with the north and with winter. She's written about in several works of Old Norse literature, including the Poetic Edda, Prose Edda, and Heimskringla. And so there are several stories about her. So many of the stories mentioned her being married to Njörðr, who was a god among the Vanir and the father of Frey and Freya.

Lizzie 

So, in one book of the Prose Edda, it says that Skaði wanted the two of them to live in Þrymheimr was part of the giants' territory, but Njörðr wanted them to live in his home by the sea.

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

Lizzie 

So they compromised that they would live nine nights in Skaði's home and three nights in Njörðr's home by the sea.

Zoe 

Interesting.

Lizzie 

Yeah, it's not really an even distribution of days.

Zoe 

Yeah.

Lizzie 

However, they each hated the other's home, and so they were forced to part because they can never live happily together.

Zoe 

Huh! Interesting.

Lizzie 

Yeah. Yeah, she--it's not her nature to be by the sea. She's of the mountains, you know.

Zoe 

That's an interesting story.

Lizzie 

And vice versa. Yeah. And in another book of the Prose Edda, Skaði travels to Asgard to confront the gods because they killed her father. They offer her her compensate-compensation in the form of a husband. And the deal is that Skaði may choose any one of them. But she must choose this husband solely by looking at their feet.

Zoe 

Mm.

Lizzie 

This story is so like Norse mythology.

Zoe 

Yeah, it's just like--I mean, it's very mythology. It's like, haha, here's a funky little trick for you. I'm pretty sure it's Loki who came up with this idea. Like...

Lizzie 

I mean, probably. Loki is also in this particular--the story in this particular book of the Prose Edda. And part of it is also--this is kind of gross, so I didn't actually put it in my notes. But part of it is like, oh, she's like, well, none of you could make me me laugh, like, challenging one of them to see if they can make her laugh. So obviously, Loki is the one to step up. And he ties one end of like a string to like a goat--goat's foot or something, and one to his testicles.

Zoe 

Oh.

Lizzie 

And so then he's like, pulled around and stuff and ends up in her lap, and then she laughs.

Zoe 

What a man.

Lizzie 

Loki is such an interesting character.

Zoe 

He is such an interesting character. Anyway.

Lizzie 

Anyway, so she-she looks at the feet of a bunch of gods in Asgard, and she chooses a pair of feet that she finds the most attractive, thinking they belong to Baldr, but they in fact belong to Njörðr. And that's that basically, but then in Heimskringla, it says that Skaði had once married Njörðr, but had been unwilling to have sex with him. But later on, she married Odin, and they had many sons, including Sæmingr, the King of Norway.

Zoe 

Interesting.

Lizzie 

And it's not always the most important detail, but like in every story of the two of them as a couple, they part. Like, they can't be together for whatever reason, or they don't want to be like--

Zoe 

Skaði and Odin, or Skaði and Njörðr?

Lizzie 

Njörðr.

Zoe 

Okay. Yeah.

Lizzie 

Not Odin, yeah.

Zoe 

Yeah, that's what I've heard before.

Lizzie 

Also I think her being married to Odin is only like, a sometimes.

Zoe 

Mm hmm. Yeah, that makes sense because Odin has like--Frigga is his wife a lot of the time.

Lizzie 

Yeah.

Zoe 

So it's interesting that we hear him having, like, other affairs or other relationships.

Lizzie 

Yeah. Anyway, so something interesting is that Skaði likely had a large cult in Hålogaland, which was the northernmost part of the Norwegian provinces in Norse Sagas.

Zoe 

That makes sense.

Lizzie 

And this region-this region was home to a lot of Sami people, so it's theorized there may be a connection. Skaði's associated with skiing, shooting with a bow and arrow, and hunting, which are all things associated with the Sami.

Lizzie 

And her separation from Njörðr in her myths may point to a separation between her own cult and that of the Vanir in this region, as Njörðr was a was a Vanir--a god of the Vanir.

Zoe 

Yeah.

Zoe 

Yeah.

Lizzie 

Whereas Scandinavians and Sami were in close contact.

Zoe 

Mm hmm. Yeah, I was wondering about that.

Lizzie 

Yeah, so that's a potential link. Yeah. But also, another thing I saw was that her father's name, Þjazi, may possibly be related to a Sami word meaning water or lake, which was interesting. I don't know, the probability of that. I saw it in a source, but I couldn't find out what the word supposedly is that is related to Þjazi.

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

Lizzie 

But interesting, I think that's cool.

Zoe 

That is cool.

Lizzie 

But I mean, obviously, cuz she is associated with the North, and you know--

Zoe 

Yeah.

Lizzie 

--very, very cold climates and snow and everything, it makes sense cuz the Sami obviously lived in the north--live in the north, and--

Zoe 

Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it makes sense that she would be important to the--to, like, people in the far north because of her associations, and also because she skis, she hunts by bow like those are, you know, probably really--

Lizzie 

And there's commonalities and--

Zoe 

Yeah.

Lizzie 

--it makes sense.

Zoe 

--things you're doing a lot at the time. So like--

Lizzie 

Yeah.

Zoe 

--obviously, you're gonna want rhe favor of someone who also does that a lot. But yeah, very interesting. And yeah, that's also interesting, the possible meaning of the story because that's a story that I--like, has always been interesting to me, uh, of like the separation between her and her husband, cuz it's not like--it's interesting. There's, like, this level of, like, incompatibility that just like, feels like it must have a strong meaning, but I just can't like quite get at it. Because it's not like it's not like Persephone and Hades. It's like--

Lizzie 

They married willingly in some--in many versions.

Zoe 

Yeah, and also they separate. which doesn't happen in Persephone and Hades's like--or at least not, like, fully.

Lizzie 

Yeah, and they--and they choose to separate. It's not like something tragic tears them apart. They're just incompatible.

Lizzie 

Yeah, yeah, divorce.

Zoe 

Yeah. Which is also interesting, cuz like divorce was a thing that happened in, like, this culture. So like, they have divorces in their mythology, sort of, is what I'm like--this feels like to me, which is funny.

Zoe 

Yay divorce. Love divorce.

Lizzie 

Divorce is awesome.

Zoe 

Yes! So on the other hand, we have a woman from Iranian folklore, who really loved her husband. And her name is Nane-sarma ننه سرما)  ), which means Grandma Frost, um, but she's also known as Bibi Barfi, which means Grandma Snow. So. Um, and she's associated with the phenomenon of one week of cold weather at the end of winter, known as bard-ol-ajooz, or the cold weather of the old woman. And there are a lot of different stories associated with her, um, and the stories have various variations. But basically the main story--it has to do with her relationship with her husband, who is Amu-Nowruz, and is associated with the Irani--Iranian New Year, Nowruz. And he appears every year at the beginning of spring to help travel across the country and like, travel across villages to help people celebrate the new year. So he was traveling across the country doing his thing one year when he came across Nane-sarma, and the two instantly fell in love. However, he still had to perform his duties going from town to town, and Nane-sarma waited for him throughout the year, as like a devoted lover. And as the time grew closer to his return, she cleaned her house from top to bottom, so that it would be nice for him to return to. However, right before he returned, she fell asleep due to the exhaustion of all her efforts of cleaning and everything, and slept all throughout the year until the next new year. And then this kept happening over and over again. And so therefore, the two never see each other but hope one year to finally be able to meet once more.

Lizzie 

Okay.

Zoe 

Yeah. Which is really interesting. They're in love, but they're like, never see each other. They like are always two ships passing in the night, you know?

Lizzie 

Mm hmm, yeah, it's like sun and moon gods sometimes.

Zoe 

Yeah, mm hmm.

Lizzie 

Like, destined to always be apart.

Zoe 

Yeah. And then some stories say that, like, if they were to see each other, it would mean the end of the world, which is like, interesting. But yeah.

Lizzie 

That's-that's-that's-that's cool. It's a cool detail.

Zoe 

Mm hmm. So then another version of the story. So it says that Nane-sarma had three children. She had a daughter who is kind of inconsequential to the story, unfortunately, and two sons named Ahman and Bahman. And one day her two sons went up to the mountains to collect firewood and never returned. So she obviously became quite worried and went to search for them. And after three days of not finding them, she was really upset. She set fire to a broom and tossed it in the air and said, "Where's my Ahman? Where's my Bahman? I will set fire to this world." And it's said that the warmth from the broom fire is said to be the warmth that returns after the cold of winter.

Lizzie 

Huh. Okay.

Zoe 

That's another sort of version of the story. And then the third version, which sort of combines the two, says that fourteen days before spring, an old woman, who is of course, Nane-sarma, began her spring cleaning. She ground the flour, she brought in the water, she did the laundry, she baked bread, she cleaned the oven. Then when she was done, she sat on the roof and waited for her husband, and she was making a necklace for herself in the meantime. But while she was waiting, she fell off the roof and died.

Lizzie 

Oh!

Zoe 

Unfortunately, very sad. And so when her husband returned, he was really sad to see his wife had died. So he set fire to the thorny bushes outside their house and then also jumped off the roof. And their deaths and the fire are said to have brought a return of the warm weather. And hailstones are actually said to be from the beads from the necklace she was working on when she fell off the roof.

Lizzie 

Okay, that's cool.

Zoe 

Yeah, but anyway, like, the story seems to be very much associated, like, with, you know, a woman and husband who are waiting for each other but never quite get a chance to meet, which is really sad, but also very interesting.

Lizzie 

It's very tragic.

Zoe 

Yeah. And also spring cleaning, which is really interesting.

Lizzie 

Yeah. Spring--full spring cleaning in there.

Zoe 

Yeah.

Lizzie 

It's fun.

Zoe 

Mm hmm. And yeah, she's associated with, like, this phenomena of there being, like, one extra week of really cold weather at the end of winter, and then it's spring and that's, like, the last of it. Yeah, but yeah.

Lizzie 

So next we have Poli'ahu, who is a Hawaiian goddess of snow and ice. So we talked a bit about her in our episode about Pele, the volcano goddess. Do you remember the story?

Zoe 

There was some sort of fight between the two of them.

Lizzie 

That's correct. So they are enemies, Poli'ahu and Pele. But Poli'ahu lives on Mauna Kea, while Pele lives on Mauna Loa, both of which are huge volcanoes in Hawai'i.

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

Lizzie 

And Pele is said to have a very fiery personality, whereas Poli'ahu is sometimes said to have a more cold personality.

Zoe 

Shocking.

Lizzie 

Yeah (both laugh). And so Poli'ahu wears a pure white mantle and is extremely beautiful, often considered the most beautiful of Hawaiian deities.

Zoe 

Ooh, interesting.

Lizzie 

Yeah. And she is not the only snow goddess in Hawai'i. She is one of four sisters who are all associated with snow. And they are called Lilinoe, Waiau, and Kahoupokane. All four of them are the children of Haumea, the Earth Mother, and Kane, a god of life, freshwater and fertility. However, Poli'ahu is the most well-known and has the most stories associated with her.

Zoe 

Do you know if the other three are also associated with, like, volcanoes on the islands?

Lizzie 

They are each associated with specific--I think mountains, but, um, Waiau has a lake.

Zoe 

Cool!

Lizzie 

To be honest, I didn't look into it that much. But they do definitely have, like, very specific associations, where Poli'ahu has Mauna Kea, they have something else.

Zoe 

Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Cool.

Lizzie 

So, a well-known one is the story of Aiwohikupua, who was an ali'i, so like, it's a traditional nobility of Hawai'i.

Zoe 

Uh huh.

Lizzie 

And he became engaged to the chiefess Laie-i-ka-wai. But one day he met Hina-i-ka-malama, who was a guise of Pele. So Pele in disguise.

Zoe 

Ooh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that sounds familiar.

Lizzie 

Yeah. And he gambled with her and lost. And since he was the forfeit, he then had to agree to marry her. And he tried to escape back to his original bride, but on the way back he met a beautiful chiefess who was Poli'ahu, and he proposed to her.

Zoe 

Wow. Okay.

Lizzie 

Yeah (Zoe laughs). Yeah, he's getting around.

Zoe 

Apparently so.

Lizzie 

But so Pele learned of his betrayal and confronted him. Aiwohikupua had to fulfill his vows to her since she had won him fair and square, so Poli'ahu had to give him up.

Zoe 

Uh huh.

Lizzie 

Accept her loss, etc. However, she attacked the couple with snow and heat until Pele could not take it anymore and left him.

Zoe 

Whoa.

Lizzie 

And so he ended up--so he ended up losing all three of these women.

Zoe 

Wow. Damn.

Lizzie 

Yeah.

Zoe 

Rough time for him.

Lizzie 

So the other thing is, um, like you mentioned, that there's, like, a bunch of conflict between Pele and Poli'ahu.

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

Lizzie 

Yes, that's like a really big feature of Poli'ahu myths is their constant rivalry. And so they are both part of a myth about Mauna Kea, which, by the way, is extinct.

Zoe 

Oh, really?

Lizzie 

And this is--

Zoe 

Oh, wait. Yes. I think I remember this, actually.

Lizzie 

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay, so. Poli'ahu came down Mauna Kea and saw a beautiful stranger who they--who she welcomed, her and her sisters. When the ground became warm, Poli'ahu realized the stranger was Pele in disguise.

Zoe 

Ooh. Interesting!

Lizzie 

Yes. So Pele began to call for forces of fire to make their way up Mauna Kea, and the snow mantle began to burn up from the lava. Poli'ahu threw the mantle over the mountain, which caused great earthquakes and rock slides. And Poli'ahu managed to cover all of Pele's fire with snow, extinguishing it and causing the lava to harden and turn to stone.

Zoe 

Wow.

Lizzie 

 Which is--thus also made Mauna Kea extinct.

Zoe 

That's incredibly powerful. That's a lot of snow and ice.

Lizzie 

It's very cool. And I think it's really awesome that Hawaiians clearly knew a lot about the, like, geological processes going on.

Zoe 

Mm hmm. Yeah, for sure.

Lizzie 

The natural land formation all of a sudden--like, that's it is very powerful. I think it's cool that it's goddesses who are doing this and that there's like sort of creation stories involved with some of their landforms and everything. I think that's really fun.

Zoe 

Yeah, it definitely is.

Lizzie 

Cuz, like, there is, like, science in this area.

Zoe 

No, it's literally is!

Lizzie 

Snow extinguished the lava.

Zoe 

Yeah.

Lizzie 

Like, that's awesome.

Zoe 

That's literally how it works. And that's very interesting.

Lizzie 

Yeah.

Zoe 

And also--I mean, it is--like, I think I talked about this in our Pele episode, but it's, like, very much like oh, that's very powerful because that's a lot of snow and fire--like, to extinguish the fire and normally when you think of fire going against snow, you think snow will lose. But no, that's not what happens here. It's very interesting.

Lizzie 

Like you would think that the lava would overtake the snow. But like, it can't because of the--the volcano's extinct.

Zoe 

Yeah, I mean, like, everything has its match, basically.

Lizzie 

It's pretty awesome. And cuz they--Pele and Poli'ahu are frequent rivals and they often fight over Mauna Kea, but Poli'ahu is always victorious. And Pele rules the southern half of the island of Hawai'i, and Poli'ahu rules the northern half.

Zoe 

Wow. Yeah.

Lizzie 

That's pretty awesome.

Zoe 

So they're still at it today, I guess.

Lizzie 

Yeah. Yeah, they're just--

Zoe 

There's been no reconciliation.

Lizzie 

They're just always fighting. Which is kind of awesome.

Zoe 

Yeah. It's also interesting, cuz that, like, helps create, like, a balance of you know, the volcanoes aren't erupting all the time. But also, there's not snow all the time.

Lizzie 

Yeah. I mean, you don't want just--yeah, you don't want the there to be lava everywhere. You want some coldness (laughs). So you don't just, like, die from the heat, right?

Zoe 

Yes.

Lizzie 

I mean, Hawai'i's obviously a pretty warm place. So it is really interesting that the snow goddess wins the story.

Zoe 

It really is interesting. Yeah. All right. So, now we're going away from Hawai'i back to the opposite--what I think is the opposite of Hawai'i, potentially, which is Eastern Europe (both laugh). Um, to talk about Marzanna, who is a Slavic goddess associated with winter, changing seasons, life, death, and rebirth. And because she's Slavic, um, and-and worshipped in a bunch of different places. She has a bunch of different names. Marzanna is the Polish name, I believe she's known as Morana, or--in some places. I believe the Russian name for her is Morena. It depends. But I think it's basically essentially a similar or the same figure. But yeah, I'm just calling her Marzanna because that's on the Wikipedia page, and--

Lizzie 

If you had to pick one, might as well just pick whatever one.

Zoe 

That is literally it. But yeah, that's the Polish name, I believe. But yeah, so her name comes from the--it's believed her name comes from Latin-ish roots of mar or mor, which means death. And some people also think she might be linked to the Roman god of war, Mars, which is interesting.

Lizzie 

Huh.

Zoe 

And also some people tie her to a mare, which is a spirit from Slavic and Germanic folklore associated with bad dreams and sleep paralysis. I think we've talked about sleep hags before, actually, but like--

Lizzie 

We have, yeah, yeah.

Zoe 

Yeah, like--

Lizzie 

A lot of different places have, like, old woman sitting on someone's chest causes sleep paralysis.

Zoe 

Yeah. And, you know, it's where we get nightmare, you know, and stuff like that.

Lizzie 

Ohh!

Zoe 

But I think that-that is a bit more disputed, that personal, like, etymol--etymological origin, but some people are like, maybe that's where it comes from. But yeah, pretty much all of her names have a mar or a mor in it. Um, she is a twin, actually, to the goddess Vesna, who is the goddess of spring. And she's the mother of Triglav, who is the god of war. So--and the thing that she is most associated with is a very important ritual in like, folk custom across, like, different Slavic nations called the Drowning of Marzanna, and in this ritual, an effigy of Marzanna is ritualistically burned and/or drowned every year at the beginning of spring in order to ensure a bountiful harvest for the air and bring about spring. Which, for me, I love--you know I love a good effigy. And I love a good burning of an effigy. So.

Lizzie 

That's very Slavic (Zoe laughs).

Zoe 

So traditionally, the effigy is made out of white cloth and straw, it's carried around the village by children on juniper twigs, and during the procession, it's dumped in every puddle and stream they pass. And then at night, the young adults will take over the precession of the effigy and light the twigs and then toss the b--toss the effigy into a body of water. And the practice of the ritual can vary greatly from place to place. Sometimes the effigy is designed as a younger woman, sometimes an old crone. Sometimes only adults are involved. Sometimes mainly children. Sometimes the effigy is torn into pieces before it's drowned. Sometimes she has a male counterpart called Marzaniok. Variation. Of course, it's a folk custom in a lot of different places, there's going to be variation. Makes sense?

Lizzie 

Yeah. It's kind of a bleak tradition. Just, like--effigy burning.

Zoe 

Well, you see, after the effigies found, they often perform another ritual that's more cheerful. It's known as walking with the copse. That's with C-O-P-S-E at the end, like in a wood, copse.

Lizzie 

Oh.

Zoe 

And they parade with branches, pine cones, and even small trees adorned with ribbons, ornaments, egg shells, and flowers, and they carry them from house to house. And both rituals can be performed separate from one another, and they're considered--but they're considered to be a pair. The drowning represents the death of winter, the walking of the copse represents the arrival of spring. And you can see there's a lot of, like, fer--sort of fertility, um, symbols.

Lizzie 

Mm hmm.

Zoe 

We've got flowers, we've got egg shells, we've got plants. So, like, a lot of fertility for the walking with the copse symbol there. Some people believe the drowning can also represent the descent of Marzanna into the underworld to return next winter reborn, so there's more of, like, a belief of, like, a kind of Persephone experience going on where she, um, goes into the underworld and then comes back and is reborn. I mean, I guess that's kind of reverse Persephone. But yeah (Lizzie laughs). Or other interpretations is that she sort of symbolizes a sacrifice to appease winter. You have to sacrifice her in order to, um, you know, make winter go away because Russian winter, Eastern European winter--rough, cold, generally.

Lizzie 

Bleak.

Zoe 

Bleak. Yeah. And--yeah, sort of, like, sympathetic magic of, you sacrifice this thing, and it'll make, I think, other things better. She represents winter, you drown winter, winter will stop. You know. There have been attempts by the Catholic Church to repress this practice, like in Poland and other Eastern European countries that are primarily Catholic. So not really Russia, but--including offering a syncretic practice in which the effigy of Judas is drowned instead (Lizzie laughs), but the culture has prevailed, which is great.

Lizzie 

Okay, so this is still-still a common practice, then.

Zoe 

Yes, actually. This practice is still done to this day. It's a lot less, like, ritualistic and religious. It's really more of like a cultural fun thing that people do. It was originally, you know, it became like, sort of syncretized with Christianity to some extent. Like, it would be performed on the fourth Sunday after Easter, which is known as White Sunday. In the 1900s, it was changed to the Spring Equinox due to the USSR and secularism etc. Bit more on that later. But yeah, one big thing about the USSR, especially in the early days, was they were big on, like, folk traditions, and big on hating church, the church. So they were like, this is great. Let's just take the religious part out of it (Lizzie laughs). So also, one thing that's interesting is that another name that some people know--call Marzanna by is Maslenitsa, which is really interesting because that's basically the Russian word for Mardi Gras.

Lizzie 

Oh.

Zoe 

Which is the sort of practice--the day of feasting right before Lent starts where you eat a bunch of, like, meat traditionally, and, like, butter before you go into Lent, where you are traditionally not supposed to eat any meat. So you're supposed to, like, eat all your meat products now, because you don't want it to go bad during Lent. And, um, little etymology--масло (maslo) means "butter" in Russian.

Lizzie 

Oh!

Zoe 

But, um, yeah. So that's interesting, too, that she's sort of--so--associated with like, things in that way. But yeah, so these events are still practiced toda. They have, like, less religious significance and are more of a cultural thing than anything, and, like, less serious and more of just a, like--just like, this is a fun thing we do, you know, we have a big parade and stuff in the town, I think, but like, they still around today--they're still around today. You know, like, the culture prevails, which is exciting.

Lizzie 

That's pretty cool.

Zoe 

Yeah. I mean, it's less of, like, her as a woman and-and a figure, and more of like, well, this is an--a figure that is sacrificed every year for ending winter, but, like she is associated with winter and she's definitely, like, a significant figure.

Lizzie 

Yeah.

Zoe 

In, like, the eyes of people trying to end winter, so--yeah.

Lizzie 

So my next lady is Hine-takurua, who is the personification of winter in Māori mythology.

Zoe 

Cool.

Lizzie 

She is one of the wives of Te Ra, the sun, and the other wife is Hine-raumati, the person--the personification of summer.

Zoe 

Ooh!

Lizzie 

Who is also Hine-takurua's sister.

Zoe 

Really interesting.

Zoe 

Oh, that Sirius. Cool.

Lizzie 

Yeah, definitely. And so her name can be translated to Lady Winter or Winter Maid. Hine is a term used to address a girl or younger woman, and takurua means winter. And takurua can also refer to Sirius, the brightest star in the sky. So she's also associated with Sirius.

Lizzie 

Yeah (laughs). Yeah. Um, so Hine-takurua lives in the ocean and is tasked with taking care of fish. Hine-raumati lives on the land and helps with the cultivation of crops, particularly kumara, or sweet potatoes. And in the winter, around the winter solstice, the sun goes into the ocean and lives with Hina-takurua. Then he returns to the land in the mao--in the Māori month of O-toru, which I believe is early- to mid-spring. And the rest of the time Hine-takurua spends time with her father, Tangaroa, who is the sea god and they produce fish and see to their migration.

Zoe 

Interesting.

Lizzie 

And this myth represents the path the sun takes in the sky, and the resulting changing of seasons.

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

Lizzie 

And--yeah, so the Māori time system is based off the positions of the moon and the stars. The sun does play a role in the passage of time, but it--mainly it determines the seasons.

Zoe 

Interesting.

Lizzie 

Which you can see from this myth. When the sun rises in the southeast, the Māori would know it was summer, and days are long and warm.

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

Lizzie 

And when it rises in the Northeast, the days are cold and short.

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

Lizzie 

So yeah, this is representative of that. And Hine-takurua has some children with the sun god, including Hine-karoro, the personification of the seagull, Hine-tata who is another seabird, and Punga, who is the parent or origin of all lizards, spiders, and insects.

Zoe 

Whoa! Cool.

Lizzie 

Yeah, pretty cool. And I think it's interesting, like we've kind of seen this in, like, all the myths from today are like--many of them--actually, all of them--that, like, winter--and, like, winter as a figure is, like, basically always contrasted with, like, spring, summer, like, in the case of Poli'ahu, like--

Zoe 

Fire.

Lizzie 

You know, fire like heat, you know, which is-which is cool. I mean, it makes absolute sense. It's like sun-moon, winter-summer, like, this contrast, and they always have to, like, exist in contrast to another figure. Which is cool!

Zoe 

Yeah, I mean, it's all about like, duality and, like, balance, right?

Lizzie 

Yeah. And like, Hine-takurua and Hine-raumati are, like, literally two sides of the same coin. They are basically equal. It's just like, one is winter, one is summer. One lives on the land, one lives in the sea.

Zoe 

Yeah. It's also--I mean, like, these are obviously two very different cultures with two very different stories. But like, I mean, it's just interesting that we have the story of Skaði, who was very anti-sea, and then we have the story of a goddess who's, like, super into the sea.

Lizzie 

Yeah. I was also kind of wondering, like, why the sea? Like, what does the sea have to do with winter? And I think the--like, the impression that I get is just like, the sun when it goes to live with Hine-takurua, it's far away from the land.

Zoe 

Yeah.

Lizzie 

Where the people are.

Zoe 

Yeah.

Lizzie 

So when-when the sun is with Hine-raumati, everything's nice and warm. And when he's away in the sea, it's cold again.

Zoe 

Yeah. Yeah. Do we know like, if there was a favored wife or anything, like--or if there's stories about that?

Lizzie 

I think--I think it's about equal.

Zoe 

That's cool.

Lizzie 

He spends, like, half his time with one, half his time with the other. Yeah.

Zoe 

That's nice.

Lizzie 

Yeah. Cuz there is usually a favored one, isn't there.

Zoe 

Yeah, I mean, it's also interesting, cuz, like, when it comes to winter goddesses, it's--you kind of assume that like, they're not super well-liked, you know?

Lizzie 

Yeah. Yeah.

Zoe 

They're kind of like, feared--or respected, but respected in a feared way.

Lizzie 

Yeah.

Zoe 

Which isn't--

Lizzie 

And sometimes they are, but sometimes it's like, this is just how it is.

Zoe 

Yeah. I mean, it is also, like, important that, like--I mean, I'm not a geographer, I'm not an expert on climate. But I think that in like, the South Pacific, the difference between summer and winter is not as extreme as it might be in, like, Germany.

Lizzie 

I would imagine so.

Zoe 

Yeah.

Lizzie 

Or like, if you're in, like, Northern Scandinavia, you're not gonna be looking upon the winter goddess super excitedly.

Zoe 

Yeah.

Lizzie 

Probably.

Zoe 

Mm hmm. You know, it's like--

Zoe 

Yeah. I mean, I think that's a big part of Norse mythology in general, is that gods don't interact with humans a ton.

Lizzie 

[unintelligible] to Skaði is like, pretty neutral. But she also doesn't really interact with humans.

Lizzie 

Yeah. Yeah. They're just having, like, little dramas in their own worlds.

Zoe 

Yeah. But yeah. I mean, that's a really--I mean, also, I just think it's interesting that there is a winter god--goddess in a place where there's not a super strong winter, as I sort of express--I expressed this before recording that we have multiple, um, winter goddesses from, like, the Pacific--from Pacific Islands, which is really interesting, because those are like places I would consider warmer and not really wintry.

Lizzie 

Yeah.

Zoe 

And so I just think it's interesting, because like--I mean, I don't think there's an Egyptian god of winter, or if there is, it's not one that's super well-known or, like, worshipped a lot.

Lizzie 

Yeah, cuz, like, there are seasons in-in Hawai'i and in--

Zoe 

Yeah.

Lizzie 

--New Zealand, Aotearoa. But--yeah, I mean, I would--I would imagine that they're not, like, extremely severe, or at least they're not as feared as they would be in like--

Zoe 

Yeah.

Lizzie 

--Norse mythology, or something cold, you know.

Zoe 

Yeah. Mm hmm. And it's just interesting, like, what is personified and what like, spirits there are.

Lizzie 

But I'm also not an expert.

Zoe 

Yeah.

Lizzie 

I'm not a meteorologist.

Zoe 

No.

Lizzie 

So who's next?

Zoe 

Our final lady of the day is a very interesting one in my opinion, because she's Snegurochka, who is a figure of--from mainly Russian fairytales, Slavic fairytales, Russian fairytales, particularly. And so she is a character from a story that is ATU tale-type 703—

Lizzie 

Nice.

Zoe 

--for those who care, which is me, um, and Lizzie (Lizzie laughs). And the Russian version of this story was first publissed by--published by Alexander Afanasyev in the 1800s. And he is a pretty--

Lizzie 

Wait what's the tale-type?

Zoe 

703 I think it's like--

Lizzie 

But, like, what is it?

Zoe 

The Snow-Child, the Snow-Girl, Snow-Maiden--the Snow-Child.

Lizzie 

Okay.

Zoe 

Because there's a--there's a Grimm fairytale that's called, like, "Das Schneekind," which means the Snow Child.

Lizzie 

Oh.

Zoe 

So--and she's the Snow Maiden, basically. Because--okay, so Snegurochka, снег (sneg) means "snow" in Russian, Snegurochka is like a big diminutive for snow, basically.

Lizzie 

Oh!

Zoe 

Feminine, diminutive. So--and, yeah. So the Russian version was first published by Alexander Afanasyev, who is like, THE Russian folklorist fairytale guy from the 1800s. And it was in his second volume of folklore titled The Poetic Outlook on Nature by the Slavs. And so there's a few different versions of the story. The first one is the one from Afanasyev's collection. And it's about a couple named Mary and Ivan, who are two childless peasants. Often in versions of the story, they're an elderly couple who can no longer have kids on their own. And they just never had a chance to have a kid due to whatever reason. But these two peasants, they make a child out of snow, and the child magically comes to life and is a beautiful girl that they named Snegurka, which is another diminutive of the word for snow, снег (sneg). And she grows up, and she becomes friends with the girls in the village. And then one day, they invite her on a walk in the woods. And after the walk, they build a fire and they decide to leap over it to celebrate St. John's day. It's a tradition, I guess. And they all do it, and then Snegurka tries to, but when she leaps over the fire, she only makes it halfway over before she evaporates into mist.

Lizzie 

Mm hmm.

Zoe 

Yeah.

Lizzie 

Okay.

Zoe 

And that's the story. So fun (laughs).

Lizzie 

Awesome.

Zoe 

So happy. The second version, Snegurochka is the daughter of Vesna Krasna, which is "Spring the Beauty," basically, and Ded Moroz, which is Grandfather Frost. And she meets a shepherd boy named Lel. And she likes him, but her heart is cold and she doesn't have the ability to fall in love.

Lizzie 

Ooh!

Zoe 

She doesn't really know what to do, I guess. But her mother, Vesna Krasna, Spring the Beauty, gives her the ability to fall in love and encourages the relationship. But as soon as Snegurochka falls in love, her heart warms and she melts away.

Lizzie 

Oh!

Zoe 

Very sad.

Lizzie 

Awesome story, though.

Zoe 

Yeah, it's an interesting story. And her story became very popular, like, right away. There's a ton of different versions of a story that's been adapted and just basically--first of all, other versions of stories in different languages, like the Russian story of The Snow Girl, or whatever. Also plays, ballets, operas, and also eventually once we get into the 20th century becomes movies. This includes an opera by Rimsky-Korsakov, a play by Ostrovskiy with music by Tchaikovsky--um,  Ostrovskiy was a relatively well-known playwright in the 1800s in Russia, and people have probably heard of Rimsky-Korsakov and Tchaikovsky, who are both pretty famous Russian composers at the time.

Lizzie 

Yeah.

Zoe 

But yeah, they all were moved by her story and made adaptations and stuff. Then, um, so in the Russian Empire, Snegurochka was a figure associated with Christmas, kind of like Santa Claus in America, and a lot of places but, you know, America is a big place for him. However, as I said before, once we get to the Soviet Union, all religious holidays, including Christmas, were outlawed. No religion allowed. But then in 1935, they allowed the celebration of New Year's because that was, like, a secular holiday. It's just you know, the new year. And they made Snegurochka a symbol of the more secular holiday instead. And she became the helper of her grandfather--he became her grandfather, Ded Moroz, Grandfather Frost, and they are the symbol of, like, sort of secular Soviet winter holidays, as well, particularly the New Year, which is today still, like, the big winter holiday in Russia, is the New Year. It's the one where you go and, like, go home to your family and, like, have a big party and stay out all night--

Lizzie 

Awesome.

Zoe 

--and, like, have a big meal and everything, it's--and actually have, like, fir trees decorated with ornaments, which sounds familiar but anyways, it's not Christmas (Lizzie laughs). It's not religious (laughs). It's kind of like reverse what the Cath--what the Church did when they were, like, converting everyone is like. They took all these, like, pagan traditions and were like, this is Christian now. And then the Soviet Union, like, takes all these Christian traditions and they're like, this is not Christian now (both laugh). Um, but yeah, so she is like--and then Ded Moroz is, like, basically the Soviet Union Santa Claus, where he's not Santa Claus, but he sure looks a lot like Santa Claus.

Lizzie 

Hmm.

Zoe 

But he's wearing, like, more traditional, like, Russian clothing. He's wearing red, he has a white beard, but like, it's not Santa Claus. And then Snegurochka usually wears silver-blue robe. She's got a fur cap or a snowflake crown, and she is a symbol of New Year, Новый Год. And yeah, she is not necessarily someone that has a lot of, like, mythological significance, like, pre-the 1800s when Afanasyev wrote down her story, but if you wrote down her story, her story was being told before he wrote it down. So like, she's definitely existed as a figure for a long time. But yeah, that's who she is. Some little fun Soviet Union information.

Lizzie 

I really like her story. It has some kind of like fairytale qualities about it. You know?

Zoe 

It's a very like--or like, you know, 1800s folklore collection, fairytale, you know?

Lizzie 

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Zoe 

Of like, this girl falls in love and then melts away (laughs).

Lizzie 

Yeah.

Zoe 

It-it has that vibe.

Lizzie 

It's like "The Little Mermaid."

Zoe 

Yeah, it is! It is like "The Little Mermaid." Also, she should not be confused with "The Snow Queen, by--also by Hans Christian Andersen, which is a different story. Also a very interesting story. But anyways, different story.

Lizzie 

Nothing to do with Frozen. Actually,

Zoe 

supposedly Frozen is kind of based on "The Snow Queen." But oh--

Lizzie 

They're not similar.

Zoe 

They're not similar at all. Like, it's not even, like, you know, Frozen takes, like--Disney takes some stories and is like, this is Snow White now and you're like, okay, I guess--this is not it (laughs).

Lizzie 

Like, they're not--they're not similar.

Zoe 

They're not similar.

Lizzie 

They're both, like, snow (laughs).

Zoe 

There's snow, I guess there's some frozen heart stuff. That's it. That's literally it. But it's a very interesting story. I'd recommend checking it out. I think it's fun. I think it's interesting.

Lizzie 

Yeah.

Zoe 

It is used in the Once Upon a Time season where they have Frozen characters, I will say. They do actually bring that in a bit more.

Lizzie 

(laughs) Awesome.

Zoe 

So I will give them that credit.

Lizzie 

We should have a Mytholadies watch of Once Upon a Time (laughs).

Zoe 

Gosh, that's a lot of commitment.

Lizzie 

We'll stream.

Zoe 

You should watch it and I can talk about what I remember because I do not have the time to rewatch.

Lizzie 

I haven't-I haven't watched it in a long time (laughs).

Zoe 

But yeah, anyway. Any-any other thoughts about winter goddesses, Lizzie?

Lizzie 

I mean, I kind of said this already, but I do think it's interesting that winter is always sort of put in opposition with spring or heat or summer or whatever--

Lizzie 

It makes absolute sense. True, autumn is a very--it's not very important, mythologically, I feel like.

Zoe 

And not autumn, never autumn.

Zoe 

I mean, it is, cuz there are goddesses of harvest, gods of harvest and stuff, but it's sort of its own thing.

Lizzie 

Like, as a season.

Zoe 

It's more focused on, like, agricultural than like--

Lizzie 

Weather?

Zoe 

--this is the time when this happens, you know?

Lizzie 

Yeah.

Zoe 

I would say.

Lizzie 

Yeah, definitely. I mean, winter is like a big huge deal, especially in certain places.

Lizzie 

Like you were mentioning before, but like in Germany, Russia, those types of places when it would have been extremely dangerous and you could die.

Zoe 

Yeah.

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

Lizzie 

I mean, it's obviously huge--a huge deal. I think it's interesting that there's, like, some sort of variation in our ladies of like, okay, this--like, they're all winter, but like, it's--one of them's, like, a snow goddess. One of them's like, you know, lives on a volcano, you know.

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

Lizzie 

One of them's about skiing, etc. And so like some of them, like, what have--were--had to do with, like, the changing of seasons, and some of them not so much.

Zoe 

Mm hmm. 

Lizzie 

Like, obviously, Hine-takurua--her whole thing is about the changing of seasons, same with Marzanna, that, um, the rituals are all about the banishment of winter--

Zoe 

Uh huh.

Lizzie 

--you know?

Zoe 

Yeah. I mean, I feel like a lot of them are less about, like, bringing the actual force of winter into people's lives and more about just, like, existing in the time of winter. Whereas it's possible that, like, male gods of winter are more, like, this guy brings the snow, this guy brings the cold winds, and stuff like that.

Lizzie 

Yeah, I feel like you're right. Whereas this isn't like--she's not--like, these women aren't as like, huge, big, powerful, forceful type of deities.

Zoe 

For the most part, but some of them--yeah.

Lizzie 

Yeah, they're not like, Zeus- or Maui-type of gods where they're just like--

Zoe 

They're doing everything.

Lizzie 

Oof, I don't even know. Yeah, exactly. They're much more chill.

Zoe 

Mm hmm.

Lizzie 

I mean, Skaði just likes to ski and be in the mountains.

Zoe 

And hates the ocean.

Lizzie 

(laughs) Yeah.

Zoe 

Yeah.

Lizzie 

So [unintelligible] I mean, that's like a comparably pretty chill myth--

Zoe 

Yeah.

Lizzie 

--associated with her, like, she's--I mean, that's kind of the case with all the Norse gods. I feel like they're just kind of chilling, doing their own thing, having their drama, but the--yeah (laughs).

Zoe 

Yeah.

Lizzie 

Norse mythology is really fun, honestly.

Zoe 

Norse?

Lizzie 

Yeah.

Zoe 

Yeah. I agree.

Lizzie 

Like, there's--like, the story where, like, Loki is a horse and then gets impregnated--

Zoe 

That is a--that is a story.

Lizzie 

--and then has a horse baby.

Zoe 

Yeah.

Lizzie 

It's always just weird stuff going on.

Zoe 

There's a lot of fascinating Norse mythology stories (laughs).

Lizzie 

Anyway.

Zoe 

Anyways. Well, if you enjoyed this episode, we hope you did. I did. Feel free to subscribe, leave a review, tell all your friends, donate to our Ko-fi, and yeah, we'll see you in two weeks with another episode. Thank you so much.

Lizzie 

Thank you.

Zoe 

Buh-bye.

Outro, underscored by music:

Lizzie 

Mytholadies Podcast is produced, researched and presented by Elizabeth LaCroix and Zoe Koeninger. You can find us on Instagram and Twitter @Mytholadies, and visit us on our website at mytholadies.com. Our cover art is by Helena Cailleaux. Our music was written and performed by Icarus Tyree. Thanks for listening. See you in two weeks.